Daily Kos

What is the argument for a Progressive governing majority?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 09:35:16 AM PDT

A book was recently published called The Argument: Billionaires, Bloggers, and the Battle to Remake Democratic Politics (buy at Amazon.com or find a local retailer) by Matt Bai, a journalist that recently has been writing for The New York Times Magazine. I finished reading it recently and I wanted to invite all of you to discuss the central question, and I'd hope you will consider reading it as well.

One of the many things that made this an enjoyable read is the fact that this book documents our shared political history. There are certainly some familiar names in the book, but at the edges of the story are all of us, the activists participating in this people-powered movement.

Make the jump to see an excerpt of what I'm talking about:

The insiders at The Palm didn't know, as they ate and drank and filled out their ballots, that they were no longer the only ones who had access to the media's precious exit polls. In a small apartment some four hundred miles away in Burlington, Vermont, Jerome Armstrong was staring at two side-by-side computer screens on the desk in his living room.  Few people at the Palm had ever heard of Jerome, but in the Democratic Party's new and growing universe of online activists, he was, at forty, already a legend, the man who had pioneered the political blog and spawned a movement of liberal imitators. Online, where respect was hard to come by, they sometimes called him "Blogfather." Early in 2004, Jerome had moved to Burlington to work for Howard Dean, drawn by his assault on the party's equivocating Washington establishment. Jerome had invented, as he went along, the brand new business of online politics.

No, as his wife, Shashi, and his four-year-old son, Taj, played on the floor nearby, Jerome heard the sound of an instant message alert, and a bunch of numbers popped up on his screen.  The executives at MSNBC, in their endless quest to be cool, had hired a few young, unknown bloggers to provide online commentary as election day unfolded.  Those bloggers had been sitting in the network's Seacaucus, New Jersey, studio when the first wave of secret exit polls rolled in. And, of course, one of them had quickly sent the data to the Blogfather in Burlington.

Jerome groped for a pen and started copying down the numbers.  He smiled. Fuck yeah was his first response. Then he looked closer. Kerry was leading by 18 points in Minnesota and 9 points in Wisconsin. That was insane. The polling had to be off. On the blogs, though, you didn't stop to evaluate information--you passed it on and corrected later. Jerome did a quick cut-and-paste, added a few lines of context, and hit the send key.

He grabbed his cell phone and called Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, known throughout the blogosphere as "Kos," and Duncan Black, who went by the name "Atrios." Seconds later, they added links to Jerome's blog, MyDD.com, on their sites. Laughing, Jerome watched the spike in traffic as a thousand blog followers flocked to his site. Yahoo News soon posted a story announcing that Jerome had somehow gotten hold of the numbers, adding its own link. Within an hour, a hundred thousand visitors were pounding at Jerome's virtual door, overwhelming the rented set of servers that powered his site from the safety of a cooled room in upstate New York. The blog crashed and went dark. It took hours to restore the servers, but it hardly mattered; by then, it seemed that any American with a computer and more than a passing interest in politics had pulled down the detailed data that had been, in every previous election, the property of a select few. The club had just gotten a whole lot bigger.

There are scores of passages like this sprinkled throughout the book that bring back memories I'm sure a lot of you share as well. I happened to be one of the thousands of readers that November evening in 2004 searching around for whatever information I could find, watching a TV in the background to see what the media was reporting. I went to bed in my San Francisco apartment late that evening, pissed off, disappointed, drained.  I woke up the next morning to find this diary on DailyKos which lead to starting an organization I lead for over 2 years. There are more stories than I can count of others that started their own things about this time as well, the election spurred us on.

While I think you'll thoroughly enjoy reading the narrative portion of the book but the real value of this is the keen and critical observations about our recent political history and the undercurrents driving the movement. For the activist, blogger, or political junkie I look at this as a textbook. What mistakes have been made, and what opportunities have been missed?  I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with every word written in this book, but we can all learn from it. And it sums up the most critical task - define the argument for a Progressive governing majority.

I'll quote from the book again here, this time from the chapter titled The Road to Dysfunction:

Arguments come and go in American politics from one campaign to the next, but some endure. The twentieth century, in fact, was dominated by the arguments of just a few popular movements and their visionary leaders. Roosevelt's New Deal, built on the progressive movement that proceeded it, was based on the highly controversial argument that a more expansive and intrusive government was the only way to address the inequities inherent in capitalism--to save the unbridled market from itself. Lyndon Johnson and Robert Kennedy, affected by the equality movements of their time, picked up where that brief left off, arguing that government had not just an active role to play in economic growth of a nation, but also a moral obligation to intervene in social injustices. The conservative movement led by Ronald Reagan advanced Hayek's argument about the inevitable evil of central planning (including taxes and forced integration) and the necessity of standing up to totalitarianism (which included "rolling back" Soviet aggression). These movements were distinguished not by their end goals--all of them sought "opportunity" and "the blessings of freedom"--but by their arguments about why those things had eluded too many Americans and what was needed to secure them.

While all of their proponents labored to make them as universal and as palatable to voters as possible, none of these arguments grew originally from a desire to win elections, nor were they designed to be immediately acceptable to the broadest swath of voters. FDR's vision inspired generations of free marketeers to detest everything he stood for, even as they reached unimagined prosperity. Johnson and Kennedy turned the entire American South away from the Democratic cause. Reagan's thesis cleaved the country, bringing on twenty years of intense polarization. Each of these arguments, in fact, infuriated large numbers of reasonable and influential Americans--but that was precisely what made them compelling and important. That was the cost of forcing people to choose between one governing path and another, and in such choices lay the fate of the public.

This theme is repeated and expanded upon throughout the book, but this is the most concise summary of it I can recall.  I should also make it clear that Bai is optimistic that the Netroots can help define and advance an argument as the movement grows and matures.

The critical problem we face currently is that the focus is on tactics, poll tested slogans, "electability", and consultants trying to ensure candidates say as few controversial things as possible. What we need for the 21st century is a leader willing to articulate a new argument that gives the American people a clear choice between one governing path and another.  That doesn't mean having a platform that includes great buzz word policies that sound great to everyone but ultimately don't change the status quo. I've been desperately looking for that in our current crop of candidates, and I haven't seen it... yet.

But here's where we come in. We've been incredibly successful at like raising money for candidates, propelling our candidates to victory, putting pressure on our leadership, even forming policy--we can do this too. One of the great things about the Netroots is that we are the American people. We come from diverse backgrounds, we are passionate about the future of our country and we are willing to work hard towards reaching our vision of that future.

So lets have a discussion, and let's invite others to discuss this until we find that vision. What is your argument?

Tags: philosophy, netroots, Matt Bai, books (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 42 comments

  •  Please discuss (16+ / 0-)

    And invite others to discuss as well, whether that is at the water cooler or at your own blog.

  •  Call me an old fogey corn ball (5+ / 0-)

    if you must, but this whole netroots idea gives me hope that even in a society that includes 300 million people the following remains possible:

    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

    Just say "No!" to letting the Very Serious People's Club make all our decisions for us.

    It is indeed charged to us the living to continue this mission . . .

    . . . to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

    Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

    by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 09:44:47 AM PDT

  •  Really nice post. (9+ / 0-)

    I am glad you mentioned buzz words.  I think we have reached a point in our society where buzz words have outlived their usefulness.  When I hear someone repeat a 'buzz' word three times I know they are trying to manipulate me.  Personally, I am tired of being manipulated and I believe others are too.  This is why we need someone who is willing to seek change and face it head on.

    Great opportunity for discussion here.

    www.EENRBlog.com
    http://www.campaignamerica08.com &
    or http://www.onecarolinagirlvideos.com

    by OneCarolinaGirl on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 09:53:42 AM PDT

  •  I just finished the book too (8+ / 0-)

    What I really enjoyed about this book is its bird's eye view of many of the major happenings in progressive politics over the past few years.  It documents the behind the scenes happenings at moveon.org, the Democracy Alliance (the funders), the DNC (as Howard Dean came aboard), and the blogosphere.  It gave me a great understanding of how these groups operate, and an appreciation for the personalities behind them.  If you want to be a "fly on the wall" for the major happenings in progressive politics, this book is for you.

    What I found more challenging was the book's conclusion that the new progressives have no "Argument" for how they would govern the country, which puts them in contrast with the New Deal Democrats and the Goldwater-Reagan right.  First, I believe the progressive movement does indeed have a coherent Argument based on individual rights (including economic rights, civil liberties, and freedom form both governmental AND corporate oppression), whose tenets have greatly increased in popularity over the last several years (as the polls show).  I also am skeptical that the Goldwater to Reagan right had any coherant argument.  The whole intellectual William F. Buckley brand of conservativism never really had broad popular support nor did it command majorities until the 1980's when it merged with the reactionary Christian right, and embraced doctrines which were total anathema to the Goldwater movement conservatives (and even caused Goldwater himself to leave the movement).  However, my disagreement with the book's conclusion didn't ruin the fun I had reading about all the behind-the-scenes machinations, and learning fascinating new details about how this progressive movement was born and grew up.  (And did you know that Moveon.org's Eli Pariser is only 26?)

    I heartily recommend this book.  It's a good, fun read.  And while some of the conclusions are, in my view erroneous, they are nevertheless thought provoking, and helped me focus on my own view of the progressive movement and where in stands in history.

    •  but just because there is a vision and ideas (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      terminal3, SallyCat, DBunn, brentmack

      doesn't mean there is an argument. An argument is about choice, and none of the candidates are asking us to make hard choices. Who doesn't agree with having rights? But what is the cost of having those rights? What has to give for those things to be achievable? If government worked the way it should, these rights would not be threatened. What different governing philosophy would make sense of where we are and where we need to go.

      We have ideas, but no argument, no debate on how to get there.

      •  I Disagree... (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        gina, shayera, terminal3, America08

        ...John Edwards has said many times that we have to ask Americans to be patriotic about something other than war, that there are sacrifices to make, for instance, when it comes to halting global warming.  That we have to make hard choices about investments in our future and that we need universal health care - which means we have to pay for it.  The argument is being made, quite passionately and consistently, if you are listening.

      •  Sure there's an argument (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        gina, shayera, terminal3, SallyCat

        Corporations have too much power, and we must regulate them in order to assure citizens have the full range of economic and social rights that are part of the social compact, to start.  That's an argument.  And there's no need for excessive self-flaggelation about all the sacrifices we have to make to achieve ourt goals.  The Paul Tsongas "each your spinach" approach to polics and government doesn't work and is unproductive.  The right never engaged is a self-flaggelation debate, nor did the new dealers.  We know what we're for, and what our goals and values are -- that's the argument.

        •  I think... (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          gina, shayera, terminal3, SallyCat

          ...what Matt and Gina both were saying is that in essence, all Americans want these things.  The argument is not what you want and what you value, but the path that you take to get there and what that entails.  There must be an argument for why our progressive vision is a better vision than the conservative one.  Republicans will tell you they want America safe and secure.  Democrats want that too.  All Americans want that.  Where we disagree is how we get there, what that means, what it takes.  

          Does that make sense?

        •  Adam Smith made very similar arguments (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          gina, SallyCat

          A genuine free market advocate will oppose the collusion between Big Government and Big Business.

          Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

          by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:31:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, I believe many of the core principles (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        gina, SallyCat, hypersphere01

        of the current progressive movement can be traced to the political philosophy found in the Federalist Papers blended with the idea that at the end of the day there simply is no "us and them" but only us.

        And the idea that we are all called to be our brother's and sister's keeper.

        Libertarianism blended with a strong dose of social responsibility.

        Hate to say this, but if we step back far enough this becomes a variant of small "c" conservatism, something both the GOP and DLC reject.

        Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

        by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:30:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why we have "no argument" (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        gina, SallyCat

        IMHO, the reason there might seem to be "no argument" coming from the progressive movement is that the central argument is taboo, unmentionable.

        But what the heck, I'll mention it anyway:

        We have to redefine the meaning of property.

        Everybody, I think, would agree to these core progressive values:

        Universal freedom and prosperity.

        I don't mind adding "as much as possible" as a nod to practical limits.

        Here's another core progressive value, which is really an alternative statement of the same things:

        As much as possible, treat people decently.

        That one is also sometimes known as the Golden Rule.

        And I hope all would agree on a couple things that we do NOT want:

        No slavery. No genocide.

        To that I would add "or their functional equivalents", to avoid getting dragged into debates on when something truly awful is nevertheless technically not "Slavery" or "Genocide" per se, in someone's opinion, just like "agressive interrogation techniques" are not torture.

        So, to recap: Progressives seek to promote universal freedom and prosperity, and to avoid slavery and genocide. Progressives understand that it is in all of our interests to define the rules, rights, duties, limits, and powers associated with property ownership in such a way as to support those goals.

        Returning to the premise of this comment, even talking about redefining the meaning of property is completely forbidden. It's like... well, it's like other unmentionable things, which I won't mention here because they're, you know, unmentionable.

        In summary, we progressives do have an argument, but for the most part we do not say it out loud. Which puts us at a bit of a disadvantage in the debate.

      •  Bai misses the point probably because he's (0+ / 0-)

        an insider whose bias is clearly with the insiders.  He doesn't quite grasp the really big idea of bringing the power back to local activists with Howard Dean's 50-State strategy and wresting it away from consultants and ad buys. His use of the word "argument" is also flawed.  There is a battle going on, not just an argument. The medium finally is the message.  It's a profound shift and the elites of Washington politics are pitched against the outsiders, the progressive insurgents out here in the hinterland who are bringing back the voice of the people.  It's between democrats and anti-democrats.  It's between those who believe in the wisdom of crowds as those who believe in hiearchy.

        John Edwards has said that we have to reclaim the Democratic Party, not merely try to reform it. The choice is between maintaining the status quo of the last 30 years of incrementalism or a more bold change which hearkens back to a time when the Democratic Party represented the laborer and the farmer and the immigrants and minorities.

         In 1952 the Party began its move away from class issues to social issues.  It turned away from economic justice towards individual rights.  As it pulled away from defending the right to collective bargain and dwelled instead on individual rights, we Democrats began to lose our soul.  We began relying on the courts to solve our problems instead of taking our case to our neighbors who would then elect people who would demand that rights be written into law, not argued in court.

        We don't need an argument.  We need to bring our hard edge back; our fighting faith.  

        "It is not be cause things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that they are difficult." Seneca

        by MontanaMaven on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:04:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Have you read the book? (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          gina, SallyCat

          Because from what you are writing it sounds like you haven't and I can assure you that absolutely is not the message it conveys.

          Tactics and electoral politics are all well and good and necessary, but that isn't what'll keep Democrats in office.

          We've had this discussion in a number of forms whether you call it message, or framing, or whatever.  People can't articulate why you should be voting for Democrats. And that is the crux of this discussion.

          You can't just throw out some value, because as Tracy articulated above that's just an end goal, and it is something the other side could claim as well, they just believe it is achieved differently.

    •  The "new" Left strikes me as more (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gina, terminal3

      freedom oriented that the "old" Left.

      And more open to market based solutions premised on a level playing field.

      Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

      by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:26:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  what frustrates me (6+ / 0-)

    I feel like I should be hearing more from the candidates that makes me step back and really debate whether I agree with them or not. Things like "affordable healthcare" and "education for all" and "sensible immigration policy" are things everyone can agree with. That's not an argument. What choices are the candidates asking us to make? What are the consequences of those choices? What does that say about each candidate's governing philosophy. We need real debate about the sacrifices we are willing to make to achieve those objectives.

  •  I've been thinking a lot about this (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina, terminal3, SallyCat, pioneer111

    Is there possibly some kind of process we could embark on to shape this vision and argument? It feels like a longer-term project to me; not something we (or any one segment of progressives) can "come up with."

    A consistent problem/roadblock for the netroots doing this is the segregated blogosphere, where the larger most trafficked sites are largely white, with smaller communities of blogs led by and read by people of color.

    As progressives, our argument has to be a process that includes everyone in our winning coalition. It's never going to work if it doesn't. So I keep thinking about how to engage all of these communities in the netroots to this common purpose. I think an annual conference is a possibility, but it would have to be much different than YearlyKos, and I'm not sure people will be willing to change YearlyKos that much. Perhaps the new name lends that potential.

    Anyway, thanks for opening the discussion. We certainly need it.

  •  I like the freedom of the blogs, but I don't like (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina, terminal3, SallyCat, LNK, pioneer111

    some trying to play the polls on the leading sites like the polls are the end all, know all.

    I like the instand citizen coverage of the blogs that really sets us free, the YouTubes that let us hear for ourselves the value of what the candidate is saying or meant. That is what leads to so many discussions, then you have real evidence of the truth.

    Jerome - will/should go down in histroy as a new frontier leader.

    "Madame, we have given you a republic, now let's see how long you can keep it", comes to mind.

  •  they call us the nutroots.... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina, carolita

    I say we should not be looking for heroes to lead us, and my most inspiring source for Party Platform material is FDR:

    http://newdeal.feri.org/...

    SNIPPET:

    There are two ways of viewing the Government's duty in matters affecting economic and social life. The first sees to it that a favored few are helped and hopes that some of their prosperity will leak through, sift through, to labor, to the farmer, to the small business man. That theory belongs to the party of Toryism, and I had hoped that most of the Tories left this country in 1776

    But it is not and never will be the theory of the Democratic Party. This is no time for fear, for reaction or for timidity. Here and now I invite those nominal Republicans who find that their conscience cannot be squared with the groping and the failure of their party leaders to join hands with us; here and now, in equal measure, I warn those nominal Democrats who squint at the future with their faces turned toward the past, and who feel no responsibility to the demands of the new time, that they are out of step with their Party.

    Yes, the people of this country want a genuine choice this year, not a choice between two names for the same reactionary doctrine. Ours must be a party of liberal thought, of planned action, of enlightened international outlook, and of the greatest good to the greatest number of our citizens.

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:05:28 AM PDT

    •  agree (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      terminal3, SallyCat, navajo, LNK, carolita

      no heroes. We have to be our own heros. When we raise people up on a pedestal and make their personage look extraordinary, it is too easy for the rest of us to say, "I could never be that person." We will be saved by regular people, like ourselves, demanding better and doing the work to make it happen.

      That is one thing I love about the characters of The Argument. They are flawed, but, usually, still do wonderful amounts of good. It gives me hope.

  •  Please support Dennis Kucinich (0+ / 0-)

    Let us get money out of politics.  

    There are no strings attached with Dennis.  The mainstream media candidates have all received the $2300 contributions from their corporate masters.
    Check out opensecrets.org.

  •  You're Looking In The Wrong Place (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina

    There have been Presidential candidates who used their campaigns to stress difficult choices facing the American people. People like Mondale, Babbitt, and others, and they didn't get elected.

    Especially in today's atmosphere, with Conservative hacks dominating television and radio coverage, Democrats have to be careful about initiating the sort of discussion you are talking about. The path to victory is an upbeat path--remember The Man From Hope.

    We can have those discussions, and there are some blogs better than this one for them because they are more issue-oriented, but this one works too. We can also contact our elected leaders and, to some extent for all of us, we can become leaders. Personally, I would welcome more policy analysis and benefit vs cost discussions here, but I can't complain--this is a democratic site, and if anything is lacking then it is our collective fault (or perhaps it is because most people here don't think it is actually lacking).

    Politicians, however, are going to continue to behave like politicians. Some of them certainly are better than others in terms of how they would run the country, but they are all trying to tailer a message to reach the electorate.

    McCain, stop saying that you're my friend.

    by Reino on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:26:14 AM PDT

    •  Not sure I really agree... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gina, shayera, Bill White

      It is a Democratic site, and for convenience of discussion this is what the FAQ says:

      This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we're all still in this fight together. We happily embrace centrists like NDN's Simon Rosenberg and Howard Dean, conservatives like Martin Frost and Brad Carson, and liberals like John Kerry and Barack Obama. Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. And since we haven't gotten any of that from the current crew, we're one more thing: a reform blog. The battle for the party is not an ideological battle. It's one between establishment and anti-establishment factions. And as I've said a million times, the status quo is untenable

      Emphasis is mine there. That is just a concise summary of what I've written here and the larger theme in Bai's book. Why do we need to reform?  It isn't because we don't have ideas or policy, there are stacks and stacks of documents and ideas on shelves in Washington.  It is because the politics of the last decade have been ineffective at trying to articulate a real reason why Democrats should be in power.

      Those in power are for the most part content to keep doing things the way they've always been done.  The way things have been done for the last 50 years.  But there are some that believe we need a new solution for the 21st century and I think without explicitly realizing it that is what that statement is calling for and summing up.

      •  We Live In Simple Times (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        gina

        We currently have a very unpopular President fighting a very unpopular war. Democrats probably are in a situation where they can win without the strategy you speak of.

        Clinton won in 1992 without controversial policies--he won by portraying the Republican Party in power as unresponsive and inept. Eisenhower, another two-term President, won without being controversial, and Kennedy didn't force the issue of Civil Rights when he ran.

        Looking at the strategy, there are different ways to be in favor of major changes. You can state that America needs to be Energy Independent without explaining how we'll get there, which is what every politician in both parties currently does. On the other hand, you can explain how we'll use a combination of increased efficiency, tax policy, and cutting back to achieve independence. The second approach is more honest, but it provides fodder for your rivals (and their noise machine).

        You can devise an education policy that would help public schools, but it's a wonkish subject that only wonks like us would appreciate.

        In the end, I believe the best strategy for Democrats is to point out that Republicans are incapable of governance. Beyond that, we can make the slamdunk arguments that the Iraq War needs to end and that we need universal health insurance. Perhaps you can flesh out a piece of what you think the argument should be.

        McCain, stop saying that you're my friend.

        by Reino on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:15:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That doesn't last you long though (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          gina, shayera

          We made that argument in 2006 and the public bought it. They wanted better governance, they wanted us out of Iraq, they wanted a lot and they thought Democrats would give it to them. So they voted.

          Well not so much has happened in Congress and now you are seeing polls that put approval at 18% for Congress. Any Democrat that thinks they can continue moving towards electoral victory against numbers like that is frankly, insane. People just won't buy it.  And Bush won't be in office after Jan 2009, so there's not much more time where that is an effective motivator either.

          What people really want is for a leader to present a compelling vision for the future, right down the line.  That's not throwing out a wonky education policy, or saying they are for more access to health care.  They need to define a governing philosophy.

          •  Fair Enough (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            gina

            What should that governing philosophy be based on?

            McCain, stop saying that you're my friend.

            by Reino on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:22:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well that's the discussion (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              gina, shayera

              Well that's the discussion. I wanted to start it and have people think about it, but I don't claim to have the answers.

              That last quoted section from the book gives some insight into what these philosophies were during previous periods of time.  So I'd think that is a useful place to start and think through.

              But I think it has to answer the question of how we deal with the challenges of this century, not the last.  That is things like globalization (which isn't going away, so what do we do about it), terrorism (which isn't going away, so what do we do about it), new technology, etc.

              •  Challenges Remain (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                gina

                There are new challenges and new opportunities, but some of the basic issues of the past remain basic. Problems like poverty and hatred, and challenges like raising our children and promoting democracy will always be with us.

                I'm not disagreeing entirely--I'm just sayin'.

                McCain, stop saying that you're my friend.

                by Reino on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:36:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  What if none of the leading candidates (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gina, terminal3, hypersphere01

      sufficiently frames a winning message?

      Our job is to help point them in the right direction.

      Freedom from fear and a rejection of the idea that only Very Serious People are permitted to shape the national agenda is a good place to start.

      Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

      by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:41:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hope we can add "Freedom from Fear" (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hypersphere01

    to the progressive manifesto.

    We do face very real threats. Many, many very real threats. But to prevail we need to seek a calm confidence rather than fear.

    Maybe we win and maybe we lose (remember, EVERYONE dies eventually!) but we will refuse to be afraid.

    Cue Michelle Obama:

    Just as soon as the Ossetia war broke out, Dubya canceled a trip to Atlanta . . .

    by Bill White on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:38:23 AM PDT

  •  Will buy the book before the holiday (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina, terminal3

    and read it over Labor Day.

    It already feels like we are at the heart of a new revolution. Taking a strong stand on beliefs is what we need to do to succeed.

    Great diary - will read more tonight. Damn work gets in the way of blogging!

    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. Voltaire 1694-1778

    by SallyCat on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:10:37 PM PDT

  •  one word (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina, SallyCat, navajo

    Democracy. That's the reason.

    I do not believe that any democrat now running would, if elected, actually restore habeas corpus and give up the extensive executive powers this bunch of criminals has appropriated with the help of their congressional cronies.

    In the history of the United States, tinpot popes like Bush are a dime a dozen; real evils like Cheney, our homegrown Joe Stalin, are rare. Will there even be an inauguration in 2009?

    Progressivism historically is the only force that can leave a good minority report, provide vision and moral force that can unite the nation with a worthy moral purpose.  Give us some pride and class.

    Like Rosa Parks, trained by the progressive Highlander Institute.  Like Martin Luther King Jr. Cesar Chavez.

    The only Democrat running who can actually win is John Edwards.  

    What Progressives have to do:
    overturn Buckley v. Valeo by legislation.
    restore the fairness doctrine to political airtime.
    restore habeas corpus
    undo all war all the time
    convince funders of political campaigns corporate and individual to change agendae.

    Can we do any of it?

    Let's start in California.

    Back to work now.  . .

    This is us governing. Live so that 100 years from now, someone might be proud of us.

    by marthature on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:25:33 PM PDT

  •  substantial freedom & interdependence (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    gina

    The rest of my answer - and a lot of other folks' - are linked from here...

    http://www.dkosopedia.com/...

    Speak Out, California! Energizing progressives from Crescent City to Calexico

    by da on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 10:42:25 PM PDT

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